That is "market sense".
And Kudos to Sujatha, Sethu for that contrarian call & to Ankhurbbhatt's +ve div.
*******************************************************************
Trend continues to remain down with a short term reversal - the quality of which will decide its longevity.
*******************************************************************
Thank you Manoj (Tryin2Trade) for the following link (www.thestreet.com)
One of the questions we get each correction is whether or not traders/investors should try to pick market bottoms. The background music is an orchestra of bottom callers, the vast majority of who are, shall we say, premature. Eventually someone gets it right, but I never have been convinced it wasn't a function of random luck.
For the vast majority of market participants, however, this guessing game tends to be rather expensive.
The good news is that it can be done. There are, on occasion, situations where all of the technical and sentiment indicators align "just so." When all the stars and planets line up, it may be worth taking a high-probability stab at that with a little money (a toe in the water so to speak).
The bad news is this is exceedingly difficult. The ideal conditions and circumstances for bottom picking are rare, and the tools necessary to do so are even rarer. Most traders and investors do not have:
- the requisite skill to identify these circumstances;
- the obligatory patience to wait for these conditions;
- or the compulsory discipline to cut losses when the trades don't work out.
Rather than tell you if it is safe here or not, let's consider a different strategy.
Consider the following chart (it's either a market or stock). Each of the red circles is a potential bottom where you could have caught the proverbial falling knife:
Had you bought this at what looked like any of these bottoms, you would have suffered significant losses.
From a risk/reward standpoint, there are much higher-probability trades/investments to make, with lower risk. This balance leads to better overall returns.
Now consider the same company as above, only with the chart extended a little further in time. It reveals two much better entry points than the bottom guesses. The first is when the downtrend was broken, and another entry when the horizontal resistance was overcome.
You would have been much better served buying this stock (or market) when the relentless, multi year downtrend broke (circle 1) than trying to repeatedly guess the bottom. The next advantageous strategy would be to add to the position -- average up -- after the horizontal resistance is broken (circle 2).
The bottom line: Most investors do not have the tools to play this bottom-guessing game. They lack the ability to wait for lows, and they lack the skill set to see the bottom when it's there. Too few employ stop losses or risk management. Worst of all, even when they do, they lack the discipline to follow their own rules.
Might today be the bottom? My best guess is that we are getting nearer a tradeable low -- the oversold point where a rally can run a few days to a few weeks. But my instinct is that we are nowhere near the 2008/2009 recession bottom. But why guess? Why not wait until the downtrend is decisively broken?
66 comments:
good mng ilango sir,
thanx for the wonderful analysis topic in the mng.
i agree to ur point y try to catch falling knife and a line most of the traders dont have the ability to stuck to their own rules and moreover its really difficult calling the bottom.
thanx once again.
saurabh
@ RG
thanx for putting up read me, for how to go abt trade.
and really sorry for responding late as there are lot many things on mind and perform under pressurelike:-
1. keeping ur boss happy so he doesnt finger u.missed the trade on thursday, waiting on sidelines.
2. keeping home ministry happy- went for a movie yesterday.
3. giving time to my little (8 month)one , though she doesnt ask for it , may b later on she complains.
4.managing money as no pay, since last 2 months.
bye for now .
try to catch up during day time.
thanx RV
FOR WONDERFUL ANALYSIS.
@ PIYUSH
ur working very hard on learning TA, keep it up
and we all will benefit from it.
hello ilango sir GM
1.nice post as usual.my guess is also that we may form a bottom today or in the next two days.
2.thanks for once again reminding the importance of R S AND SL.
THANKS SIR
RG Sir,
What material put (abt trade) to Dr.sahib.Do you have your own blog.
Thanks
Bala
Good Morning Sir & classmates.
@Bala
The material is part of Rajagopal's NF TA file, link provided on the top right hand corner under "Technical Analysis" label.
Regards.
Good morning Ilango Sir and all
=====
Sir, I have no position in Nifty future. Please advise what to do.
Thank you
=====
Thanks Ilango..You are all very welcome..And it's nothing compared to what all of you are doing...so the pleasure is all mine..and I thank you all instead...
Hi Ilango,
You have many followers and growing.. as they should be as you are giving them free analysis and that too good one. But I would like to say few things which i noticed but again do not forget, you are good in analysis and with people as well.
1 You have some fix guys whose analysis you show up..You are biased for that. Few good analysis and points you have ignored and given preferance to other less valuable analysis from your pat(pet) rons..
2 You sometimes change your views quickly ( without information and reasoning at the point of change) and later do postmortem. Example of yesterdays 4880 bottom analysis which failed and u never said short...
May be you will consider these things and make yourself more and more powerful.
Ur another critic ( silent one)..
UAC2
Hai everyone
Nifty weekly trend line analysis
http://niftychartsandpatterns.blogspot.com/2010/05/nifty-weekly-chart-trendline-breaks.html
thank you
GM Ilango and Friends!
Good Morning to ALL
GM Sir and Friends.
Good Morning sir and blogmates
-arpit
@yoda
@pisreport
good analysis, after market.
yoda u said y'day u trapped in long, so might got exit today.
@RV
good analysis, just to remind us, picture baki hain.
@UAC
mail ur analysis to ilango, i am confident he will put ur analysis also,
Disclaimer: i am not advocating anyone...
@all
good morning
GM....rm..:))
Hi Anuj. :)
thank u dr saab
hello ilango
channel traget means how much?5160 or 5300?
syamala
@Anil, thanks, I did.:) Like Ilango said, bottom-picking is just a trading error I should stop doing that.
Hi Ilango
In hourly chart +ve divergence seen,
can we go long near 4850,pl give sl.
@uac,
Go easy on Ilango, he's just human like the rest of us, even if he tries harder than we do.
1. Consider that his 'fix guys' are probably the only ones who send him stuff. I think they're at the top of the class.
2. The signals for a bottom come really late. While we jump in with random calls, Ilango can't act as irresponsibly. He has a good system and he follows it.
moh,rm,rv GM . r u there?
@Rajagopal
The quiet one is here with ungli cricketer marking his presence. :)
GM to all,
RM Sir having Siesta on last bench as usual.
rm - moh's place
Good Morning Dinesh Bhai! You know how lazy I am.
And please don't call me Sir - I'll bribe you with Dehradun's litchi. :)
To all the critics...those visible & invisible:
1. I am never biased about anyone now or ever.
If it seems so, please point out...again it is a
subjective matter..I put across that impresses me,
and of the ones who need some nurturing..etc..Again,
I do not wish to explain myself again.
2. My analysis is as much as possible objective and
I put it soon after market closes.
In yesterday's case, 4880 was the main support and if
it got broken in the morning due to world mkts, then
sell as shown in the "Pre Market table" - read that
carefully. Besides, there are many ways the market
moves happen intraday and when I put those
possibilities, guys are confused.
Very few share their trading applications based on my
or their own analysis. But they jump at to point out
the flaws.
When I see a movie, even if it is a mediocre one, I
enjoy thoroughly while most around me sit through the
entire 2 to 3 hours complaining & restless. The point
I am trying to make here is that "I am sharing my views
and thoughts here..Not giving calls and not coming back
after market hours to harp at my success or hide away
when it fails".
I advocate to everyone to stay focussed on the market..
and never bring out such personal issues..
This is strictly business and it should remain so.
NOW, how many have read the Premarket table and done a
trade..??
I like to hear that....
@Rajagopal
I meant that only.
sir,
if the gap is not filled will yesterday be classified
as island reversal?
as nifty has closed below 5 lema and opened with a gap
will it be more prudent to look for short trades?
i remember once u said gap down in uptrend to be bought
orb shud confirm it.
I got calls from friends, who r in software, some of them r stucked in longs and some r in shorts y'day when mkt is at around 4800 levels...
I too sometimes stucked up , when not follow, following things...
just to remind u guys....
HOPE is entering a market without a trading plan.
HOPE is holding a position after it has blown through your stop (if you had one).
HOPE is holding that 3-day trade for 3 months or more.
HOPE is watching a market approaching your PRICE STOP, long after your TIME STOP has expired.
FEAR of loss is not pulling the trigger, when your system posts an entry signal.
FEAR of getting out too early is not pulling the trigger, when your system posts an exit signal.
FEAR of missing a trade is being in a market before your entry signals have been confirmed.
HOPE and FEAR are two of ten emotional words that should never be part of a trader's vocabulary.
GR EED, EGO, ‘Coulda, woulda and shoulda’ are five more negative trading words.
HOPE and FEAR can always be seen on the chart of any market it's called the PRICE
Dear Sir,
I hesistantly went long at 4872 NF, after its first dip. I do read pre-market without fail though i am not able to convert that into trade too often.
Thanks & regards.
And I am amazed that someone should call me bias..
You know why...??
I can give a list of bias that were held against me
all through my life..
I consider myself - more universal kind of guy..
I can never be tied down to my family, friends,
my "ooru"(Native place), my state, my country,
my religion...why my race...
I don't like dogs in my house but I care about them
more than the "dog lovers" because I care about life..
Please..think before bringing up the "BIAS"..
rm - trying to reach. will do in y'day's route. guide me.
===
Sir Very straight.
Ilango sir,
When I firt came to this blog I dont have any clue abt premkt startergy. But after going thru materials and after reading the comments for a week I was able to understand and trade using that premkt view. It was really helpful for me to understand the possible trading range for that day...
Sir,
I read the pre-market a few times,but due to my own lack of knowledge, i couldn't understand the entry point or the sl. If you would clarify for laymen like us, would be most obliged.
Thanks,
WELL SAID Ilango!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 cheers and 6 sofas to u!!!
Sir & family
GM..
Sir bought BN n mrng..( i m more n stocks)
@rG..hi
when s TISCO result time..and wht expected..
plz gv me d link whr u find such news:)
@Arun,
if you can help me understanding the premarket view properly, it would be most helpful.
Thanks,
ilango the pic to the left of ur name tells what u are...no other words needed..
@uac,
My friend ...it's easy to become a critic....and hard to be brave enough to put your ideas and stand by them...Put yourself in his shoes and think over this...
As per the pre-market table, shorted @ 4880 and will add more @ 4920 and @ 4940 for conservative trades
Sell on rise is the mantra adopted so far.
-arpit
hello ilango
twodays back i saw in your table 5ema close above 5dma. thought may trend reversal comes soon . am i correct?
syamala
Hi Everybody!
I fully agree with ILango sir, why he will give call to anyone. He is giving best picture of probability, not the surity. I am strict follower of his pre-market table, few days back i took a buy call but due to his HOURLY 5EMA method i was out of trade with minor stop loss. I bought it again near 4790 near yesterday's closing, i already suggested Mr.ILango that he should not reply every individual bcoz then nobody would like to learn. Its better to give anyone training rather than money,bcoz then he can earn whole life. I m sorry if it hurts anybody.
KUMAR
Dear Sir,
Good morning...
I am short when NS 4883 keeping s/L 4885...
tight S/L because it is just an aggressive trade
Illango Sir,
There would always be critics for good work because of there
nature. We have learned lot of things from you.
Thanks,
@uac
u prove tht u r a critic..
and nt pejudice abt being a Critic..
its a discussion forum..post ur study..
@ Dear RM! u have taken a long @ 4872. I read the table as if the trading range is 4840/4865-4885/4925 and so I initiated a short @ 4885NS, to add more in rise, the TREND being down. Though ORB is giving a buy, considering all discussion of yesterday and today's table. should i have done the other way? Please explain how did you interprete the table to take that action.
Dear Ilango Sir,
I feel that you already prove so many times that you are totally unbiased and a very good humanbeing with motive to help all. you always teach us to focused on trading. i am trying to learn from techtable and today i initiated shor at 4885. i am going to add more shorts till 4925 with a sl of 4945. this is all on the base of teachtable. am i right sir
Sir,
I did the same as @arpitg did it. I don't trade against to conservative trade. so shorted at @4880
@ilango sir,
Well put. Please ignore such comments. This is your blog. And I have seen Here is my intra trade - horrible one - but i made money :). 4868-4880 long. Panicked and sold as I saw some OI data which I didnt like. Also 4885 bounce off...
Dear Ilango/Blogmates,
Good Morning.
Sorry this is off the topic but pl. bare with me.
After a huge fall, a pull back is expected, and it is going on. I am happy. But there is a cunning thought behind this happiness. I know that I am not the technical analyst, but my trading experience has taught me that whenever market has fallen below 200 DMA, it used to give these kind of pull backs, before going down and down only so wait patiently, let the market come up to best possible resistance level and then go only …..
In this process, which may take few trading sessions some times, I have and will miss many opportunities or some small long trades but will compensate later. This strategy has given me very handsome gains previously. So now a day, I have converted myself from day trader to very short term (patient) positional trader.
This is my disclosure of my trading strategy, which was asked by one blogmate, yesterday by mail to me.
Bye…
bimon sir,
I will try to explain based on my knowledge but I am just a beginner and I am still a learner. Ilango sir, sorry If any of my assumption is incorrect on this
Green is to go long and Red color is to go short.. I believe u know that very well
For example today the global trend is positive so my suggestion to buy when the green hits with minimal value as SL
Today's premkt is Buy levels : (4765) 4815 << 4840 / 4865
Sell levels : 4885 / 4925 >>4945
Based on the above data + global cues I will trade the following;
Today if the mkt reaches near 4865 I will go long
Sell in the range of 4880 - 4885 with tgt as 4870
mostly the possible trading range could be 4840 - 4925 for today
Please note, I am also beginner so kindly bare with me If I am wrong on this
Also you need to check the Pivot, VAH, VAL values that will also be helpful to change ur trading plan for intraday
Thanks,
Arun
Dear Blogmates,
To state facts, before coming to this blog, I have lost huge funds in stock market and now after coming to this blog and reading all types of probabilities, I am slowly ...slowly recovering my loss. In fact, in stock market no one can predict the price movement perfectly, of course he can predict probabilities only and on that basis one should trade and take the benefits of opportunities if available.
In fact this is not a blog, but a school how to develop discipline, dedication and determination.
-arpit
@pisreport
That is for trading the range 4840/4865 to 4885/4925 as given in pre-market table.
I did that with tight sl.
Sir
Good morning.
I took intraday long posn based on ORB.
hi mynac..
"After a huge fall, a pull back is expected, and it is going on. I am happy. But there is a cunning thought behind this happiness.."
may be today is the day when "..ameuters start the day and professionals end the day.."
@ Arun,
Your understanding of the trading plan is quite good.
@ Syamala,
I am amazes to read your observations. Many may have
missed that point. That is a pointer, my other critic
(Better half) often refers to.
@all
Dinesh Bhai as always makes his presence felt with a BOLD STATEMENT!!
@Dinesh Bhai
Stop bullying my back bencher mate...we usually mark our attendance and sneak out of class to play ungli cricket..
'Ungli' seems to be a favorite tool for lot of people today..some pointing..some using it in more innovative way..but we just play...cricket with it !!
arpitg345 said...
Ilango San - Read him? Never pass no-confidence motion on your student. He is not alone.
@Arun,
Thanks a lot.
NEW POST DONE.
@Arun,
And also, I am not any Sir. The only Sir here is Ilango sir. :)
German finance ministry is reportedly proposing extending the naked short-selling ban to include all German-listed stocks. The bill is due to be discussed next week. Italy has joined Europe's austerity club with deep spending cuts.
Latest GDP data, which will be out on Monday will offer some more inputs of ground realities.
FIIs were net sellers of Rs14.64bn in the cash segment on Tuesday on a provisional basis, according to the NSE data. The local institutions were net buyers at Rs4.06bn on the same day. In the F&O segment, the foreign funds were net buyers of Rs10.38bn. On Monday, FIIs were net sellers of Rs8.82bn in the cash segment, according to the SEBI data.
@Anuj
Dinesh Bhai is an old friend and guide and neighbour too (only 150 kms from my place). :)
Dear mynac - Thank you for such convincing response.
==another lazy one who did not mail but got the response.
@rm
No no...Dinesh bhai is close to me if he is 150 kms from your home ...then 100 kms from my home
"So he is my close friend"
I just have to jump out of my balcony to reach Harayana !!
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